Date: Wednesday 28th June 2017
Time: 1000
Venue: Hall 5, International Convention Centre, Birmingham


Chair: Jim Higginson (JH)
Panel: James Douglas (JD), Aimee Rowe (AR)
Apologies: Shadi Basyuni (Chair), Parisa Zarringhalam, Kohmal Solanki, Gareth Nugent

  1. Funding issues relating to second degrees
  2. JTP
  3. JTG Conference
  4. Junior Doctor Contract
  5. Local arrangements for second degree students
  6. AOB
Funding issues relating to second degrees:
  • Difficulty accessing student loan
    • Audience stated problems with SFE advisors not knowing about Medicine/Dentistry second degree entitlement and the OMFS career pathway. This often obstructs applications.
    • JD and JH clarified that everyone undertaking a ‘second degree’ (even if they have done more than one prior undergraduate degree) in Medicine of Dentistry is entitled to SFE fees funding and maintenance funds (which are partly means assessed).
      • NHS tuition fee bursary and maintenance grant should apply to all years except the first of a graduate entry degree.
    • The JTG will aim to have written guidance added to the website to clarify this. It was suggested that a standard letter to SFE could be drafted for applicants to send if having difficulty [JD, AR]
  • Difficulty accessing NHS Bursary
    • Audience stated some problems with how much bursary they received and in which years of study.
    • There was suggestion that the course length, course code and whether the course is officially a ‘graduate’ course all influence this.
    • JH encouraged perseverance with the application.
    • The JTG will aim to have written guidance added to the website to clarify this. [JD, AR]
  • BAOMS student grant set at £2000. Only 5 were claimed last year. There has been some change as to the application criteria (now requiring a relevant project or piece of work rather than an essay).
    • Patrick Magennis (PM) confirmed that there were only 5 bursaries issued as there were only 5 applications received. He clarified that any project with a tangible outcome is eligible and that they must be applied for prospectively (i.e. prior to completion of the project). Further clarified that if a project is not delivered, the bursary will not be granted but emphasised that it is achievable to obtain.
    • PM clarified that traditionally the number of bursaries is limited to between 10 and 12 but they have always been undersubscribed. PM would be happy to make the case for more bursaries should there be more demand.
    • JTG to enquire as to making details of the bursary and how to apply easier to find on the website as currently all you can see are previous recipients. [JD, AR]
  • Practical difficulties
    • Only 1 audience member is currently on the JTP. Others had expressed some difficulty in applying and difficulty finding their TPD. List of TPDs on JCST website.
    • The JTG aim to be more instrumental in problem solving JTP issues. We will discuss this in our future meetings.
  • Role in streamlining of trainees
    • JH updated the meeting with discussions from the previous days Council meeting regarding streamlining of training. BAOMS is making positive steps to address this issue and there is a hope to incorporate the second degree into training. They are limited by GMC and GDC requirements and legislation. We are a long way off but JH expressed that trainees are grateful to the Council for their efforts.
    • PM spoke about the German model of training but that EU regulations prohibit Dentistry being taught during training due to minimum contact hours requirements.
    • PM clarified that regarding JTP the GMC does not officially recognise any experience prior to Specialist Training. One benefit of the JTP is that Work Based Assessments on the ISCP do count. The JTP is not currently a recognised training post.
    • PM; potentially aim for centralised selection for JTP.
  • Announcement of intended date and venue
    • The next JTG conference was announced for the weekend of 6th Jan 2018 and will be held at Magdalene College, Cambridge
  • Possibility of joining with FiT (Fellows in Training)
    • This year the JTG and FiT have already set their dates and venues for their respective conferences. Some enthusiasm from both parties has been expressed for a joint conference in 2019.
Junior Doctor Contract:
  • NROC
    • JD suggested that we need to liaise with those currently working within this system to see how it is working.
    • Audience member highlighted there is software available to HR to calculate hours and pay (trust specific, each trust should have a system)
  • Pensions
    • Panel explained that the ST3 pay with London Weighting puts trainees in the higher bracket of pension contribution (12.5% rather than 9.3%). They are over the threshold by £68 per year. There is no added benefit from the extra pension contribution and no change in final pension. It equates to an annual loss of approximately £1500. Salary sacrifice schemes are being looked at for those affected. PM suggested paying the JCST (ISCP) fee as salary sacrifice.
  • Locum pay cap
    • Some audience members had problems with IR35.
    • PM encouraged use of zero hour contracts with hospitals and ensuring you claim back all refundable tax entitlements (books, college fees, GMC/GDC, exams, replacement clothes)
Local arrangements for second degree students:
  • Offering on call opportunities locally
    • A Consultant from Northwick Park hospital encouraged students to get in touch with their department as they are offering good contracts for second degree students – Mr Mo Shorafa (This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.)
  • Council meeting update: JH reported potential updates to streamline second degrees. Medic first grads potentially could do dentistry as part of STr training (German model).
  • More information in training debate afternoon of Weds 28th.
  • JTG Committee to try to obtain video footage of debate.


All content is accurate at time of writing but may become inaccurate over time. Any content images are the copyright of The JTG, or their respective rights holders if otherwise mentioned, and cannot be used without prior permission. Please contact us for content queries. 


Contact Us

  +44(0) 207 405 8074
  This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
  Junior Trainees Group
     British Association of Oral & Maxillofacial Surgeons
     Royal College of Surgeons of England
     35/43 Lincoln's Inn Fields, London, WC2A 3PE